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Police arrest a demonstrator protesting the killing of teenager Michael Brown on August 19, 2014 in Ferguson, Missouri.
(Scott Olson/Getty)
As protestors marched through the streets of Ferguson,
Missouri, in the days following the police shooting of 18-year-old
Michael Brown, Gregory Carr, Sr. remembered a conversation he had with his father in 1975.
Carr, an African-American instructor at Harris-Stowe State University, lives just three miles from Ferguson and also grew up in the suburbs of St. Louis. His father was born and raised in the South, at the height of Jim Crow era. In 1975, when Carr was 10-years-old, his father sat him down to have "The Talk"—a primer, from father to son, on how young black men should handle police harassment.
In the wake of Michael Brown's death, Carr decided it was time for "The Talk" with his 13-year-old son, Gregory Carr, Jr.
Today, father and son reflect on the continuing problem of police violence against black men, and how black families handle difficult conversations about racism and law enforcement.
Join Takeaway Host John Hockenberry today at 6:00 PM Eastern/3:00 PM Pacific for a Twitter chat on Ferguson, race, justice, and America. Follow @TheTakeaway and use the hashtag #BeyondFerguson.
Carr, an African-American instructor at Harris-Stowe State University, lives just three miles from Ferguson and also grew up in the suburbs of St. Louis. His father was born and raised in the South, at the height of Jim Crow era. In 1975, when Carr was 10-years-old, his father sat him down to have "The Talk"—a primer, from father to son, on how young black men should handle police harassment.
In the wake of Michael Brown's death, Carr decided it was time for "The Talk" with his 13-year-old son, Gregory Carr, Jr.
Today, father and son reflect on the continuing problem of police violence against black men, and how black families handle difficult conversations about racism and law enforcement.
Join Takeaway Host John Hockenberry today at 6:00 PM Eastern/3:00 PM Pacific for a Twitter chat on Ferguson, race, justice, and America. Follow @TheTakeaway and use the hashtag #BeyondFerguson.
Produced by:
Jillian WeinbergerEditors:
T.J. Raphael- Leave a comment
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Comments [15]
How " courageous" is it to tell
your young son to be fearful of the police so they are biased by the
time they are 11? What a very DISAPPOINTING show. I kept listening for a
cop's view. I am a man of color too. My color is white.
Aug. 20 2014 05:54 PM
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I have to say, I did not walk
away from today's show "fearing cops". It's racism, I fear. And I do
believe that people in law enforcement have a right to defend
themselves. And I don't if there are more black than white, white than
Hispanic, black than Indian, and I don't think that is the penultimate
question.
There are as many Take Aways as their are people, I like that about our country. We relate what we hear to our experiences. I think Mr. Hockenberry opened up a Pandora's box,(not a bad thing) but if the conversation freaks you out don't sweat it, someone is about to bury the box - again :( He was someone, Michael Brown, and that, is my Take Away.
There are as many Take Aways as their are people, I like that about our country. We relate what we hear to our experiences. I think Mr. Hockenberry opened up a Pandora's box,(not a bad thing) but if the conversation freaks you out don't sweat it, someone is about to bury the box - again :( He was someone, Michael Brown, and that, is my Take Away.
Aug. 20 2014 04:27 PM
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Sure, we should respect law
enforcement, but you are out of the loop when it comes to recognizing
that it is most certainly more dangerous for people of color. As for the
"college educated black man without a criminal record and no
out-of-wedlock kids", please be advised that law enforcement does not
look up your personal history before shooting; AND that was a crazy
racist portrayal of a "typical black man". Geesh, what are you
thinking?!
Remember what happened to Henry Louis Gates.
Quick story: One evening my husband and I were returning to Jersey from spending the day in the city with our son, who had just turned five. (I know, every mother thinks her kid is great, but really, he is a good, kind kid, and I recognize the fact that he is not the only one:) Digression is only one of my strengths... On the bus that night he was pretending to have a gun with his fingers. I flipped out. It was my fear saying "holy crap, kid, don't do that on the bus, in the dark, someone outside my not understand what you are doing and the worst that could (probably wouldn't) but, might happen! Did that make sense?
I freaked the poor kid out a bit, and on the half hour ride home, I cried a little. Something tells me that I would not have had the same reaction if my child had a lighter skin color. As a white parent of a black child, I have to be on top of our reality, and sometimes I've had conversations with black parents that don't know what "the talk" is and I wonder if I am falling into a media trap. That being said, while I am already in mourning for my child's beautiful innocence, I am also responsible for his safety and well-being, and so talk, I must.
When Mr. Carr told his son they needed to have the "Courageous Conversations" and Gregory Jr. asked why and said it upset him, something in me died a little and I cried. No child should have to hear that conversation, and I'm not talking about the one that says "be respectful to law enforcement", that's patently obvious. The reality is it's dangerous to be a person of color in the wrong or right place at the wrong or right time.
Remember what happened to Henry Louis Gates.
Quick story: One evening my husband and I were returning to Jersey from spending the day in the city with our son, who had just turned five. (I know, every mother thinks her kid is great, but really, he is a good, kind kid, and I recognize the fact that he is not the only one:) Digression is only one of my strengths... On the bus that night he was pretending to have a gun with his fingers. I flipped out. It was my fear saying "holy crap, kid, don't do that on the bus, in the dark, someone outside my not understand what you are doing and the worst that could (probably wouldn't) but, might happen! Did that make sense?
I freaked the poor kid out a bit, and on the half hour ride home, I cried a little. Something tells me that I would not have had the same reaction if my child had a lighter skin color. As a white parent of a black child, I have to be on top of our reality, and sometimes I've had conversations with black parents that don't know what "the talk" is and I wonder if I am falling into a media trap. That being said, while I am already in mourning for my child's beautiful innocence, I am also responsible for his safety and well-being, and so talk, I must.
When Mr. Carr told his son they needed to have the "Courageous Conversations" and Gregory Jr. asked why and said it upset him, something in me died a little and I cried. No child should have to hear that conversation, and I'm not talking about the one that says "be respectful to law enforcement", that's patently obvious. The reality is it's dangerous to be a person of color in the wrong or right place at the wrong or right time.
Aug. 20 2014 04:10 PM
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What does the fact there have
been 96 times as many blacks killed each year by white police officers
than there are possible ebola cases? The ebola case hysteria is being
flamed by the media just like you are inflaming this issue now. I am not
the least bit concerned about ebola in this country unless the media is
lying about how it is transmitted. Is PBS radio lying about that? Is it
airborne as some claim?
As for the police, they are far too quick on the trigger with any group they do not identify with or that reveals their criminal acts. I am a white, gay male and I live in San Francisco where despite the huge gay male population there are almost no gay male officers and even fewer of any rank on the police force. Our police chief, Greg Suhr, has the nerve to repeatedly use AIDS as an excuse for the fact there are no gay male police officers of rank. No one but me seems to be appalled at his statement. SF police officers are not required to live in San Francisco and most live in much more conservative communities and despise the cultural diversity SF citizens exhibit.
I have had repeated problems getting the SFPD to investigate crimes against me including felony terrorist threats. If I lived in the Castro District, it would be different due the the political circumstances. This is a violation of my civil rights and I am afraid of the police despite being 57 and never having been arrested. I have watched the SFPD harass other gay men repeatedly. I am white, but gay, and this this is a minority problem that I share with the black community. I would never use this as an excuse to destroy or steal other people's property. Tearing down your own neighborhood in anger is like an animal shitting next to its food bowl because it doesn't like the food.
Police officers know that when they shoot someone the law sides with them almost always. Just so happens the teachers in California have the same power. They can throw a student out of their class without a trial or witnesses by claiming they are afraid of the student. Yet teachers are talked about as if saints. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
As for the police, they are far too quick on the trigger with any group they do not identify with or that reveals their criminal acts. I am a white, gay male and I live in San Francisco where despite the huge gay male population there are almost no gay male officers and even fewer of any rank on the police force. Our police chief, Greg Suhr, has the nerve to repeatedly use AIDS as an excuse for the fact there are no gay male police officers of rank. No one but me seems to be appalled at his statement. SF police officers are not required to live in San Francisco and most live in much more conservative communities and despise the cultural diversity SF citizens exhibit.
I have had repeated problems getting the SFPD to investigate crimes against me including felony terrorist threats. If I lived in the Castro District, it would be different due the the political circumstances. This is a violation of my civil rights and I am afraid of the police despite being 57 and never having been arrested. I have watched the SFPD harass other gay men repeatedly. I am white, but gay, and this this is a minority problem that I share with the black community. I would never use this as an excuse to destroy or steal other people's property. Tearing down your own neighborhood in anger is like an animal shitting next to its food bowl because it doesn't like the food.
Police officers know that when they shoot someone the law sides with them almost always. Just so happens the teachers in California have the same power. They can throw a student out of their class without a trial or witnesses by claiming they are afraid of the student. Yet teachers are talked about as if saints. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Aug. 20 2014 03:51 PM
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I was very disappointed by
today's show. Maybe things are worse in places I don't visit. Cops don't
do those things to only blacks. I'm white and I experienced a sheriff
deputy pointing his assault rifle at me from 10 feet away. I'll never
forget that for the rest of my life. I was unarmed and never charged, no
crime, just a false report of a crime.
Michael Brown was not a typical case because he just committed a strong-arm robbery and obviously his state of mind was clearly violent at the time.
That Ms. Steinberg is obviously so bias she should never have been given the time she got without more balance. She got way too carried away in fantasy. Her "broken window" analogy is absurd. Is strong-arm robbery in her broken-window class?
Your usually-excellent program did a poor job on this one. You only made everything worse.
Michael Brown was not a typical case because he just committed a strong-arm robbery and obviously his state of mind was clearly violent at the time.
That Ms. Steinberg is obviously so bias she should never have been given the time she got without more balance. She got way too carried away in fantasy. Her "broken window" analogy is absurd. Is strong-arm robbery in her broken-window class?
Your usually-excellent program did a poor job on this one. You only made everything worse.
Aug. 20 2014 03:43 PM
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Wow, what a very prejudiced
program. You keep saying 96 blacks were killed by white cops. How many
people overall were killed by white cops? How many blacks were killed by
black cops? And in talking about there being 3 scenarios for this
shooting, what about the scenario that allows for a cop, any cop of any
color, to use lethal force to protect him or herself from death or
serious bodily harm? Would any one of you honestly say that you wouldn't
be in fear for your life facing an attacker of Mr Browns size? Focus on
the law, please, and focus on the facts. Stop instigating all this fear
and violence against police. They are not all out to get you. They are
serving and protecting. And sometimes that means protecting themselves
so they can go home to their families at the end of the day.
Aug. 20 2014 03:38 PM
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I am a whit guy who grew up in a
mostly African American neighborhood. I have see police brutality first
had. I personally fear police, the only time i have been in fear for my
life were when police would pull their gun on me just because of the
neighborhood I lived in. There was an incident that really stands is
from my childhood. I was wrestling an african american friend when the
park police showed up, threw my friend to the ground, cuffed him and
called him derogatory racist names until MY parents showed up to take me
home. They made no effort to contact his parents, thankfully my parents
knew him and my dad was our wrestling coach so they released the two of
us to my parents. The police kept asking my parents if they should take
my friend to jail. I would have only been 11 or 12 at the time. F$%#
the police!
Aug. 20 2014 03:02 PM
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Wow, just wrote this heartfelt response, clicked & it has disappeared. Let me try this again.
How ingrained is "the talk"? For most it is automatic and often situational. Moms seem to have a knack for auto responses. As a mother with young kids before seat belts, car seats & boosters were required, I had an automatic arm gate to protect them (a boy & a girl) during sudden stops. Black parents do this not only to their own children. I'm reminded of the time when I was working for Arts in Transit, doing an installation (oddly stacked Chairs) in Clayton. It was a visiting artist's work. He was neither black nor white, and wasn't really a youngster, but I felt responsible for him. We ran out of something & I drove him to a Home Depot. Before he got out, I found/heard myself giving him "the talk". He looked @ me in astonishment, which snapped me back into my lane with an apology. "You just don't understand," I told him. On his return to the vehicle, he pressed me to make him understand.
How ingrained is "the talk"? For most it is automatic and often situational. Moms seem to have a knack for auto responses. As a mother with young kids before seat belts, car seats & boosters were required, I had an automatic arm gate to protect them (a boy & a girl) during sudden stops. Black parents do this not only to their own children. I'm reminded of the time when I was working for Arts in Transit, doing an installation (oddly stacked Chairs) in Clayton. It was a visiting artist's work. He was neither black nor white, and wasn't really a youngster, but I felt responsible for him. We ran out of something & I drove him to a Home Depot. Before he got out, I found/heard myself giving him "the talk". He looked @ me in astonishment, which snapped me back into my lane with an apology. "You just don't understand," I told him. On his return to the vehicle, he pressed me to make him understand.
Aug. 20 2014 02:16 PM
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Out here in rural whitie world
you don't have to be much to be a cop. I knew several who were laid off
factory workers fillin in until they got called back. Minimal training,
tons of tude, no introspective angst or thoughts on police craftwork. We
have developed a police force in this country in the past few decades
that is militarized, high strung, and out of touch with the citizens
they are charged to protect. Cops no longer even look like us...what's
behind those sunglasses...a human...a robot...what? The more they armor
up the more fearful they become...the more unlike us they become. I'm a
white sixty year man and they concern me...I don't trust them...I don't
feel safe around them.
Aug. 20 2014 01:14 PM
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I also believe that there should
be no back-talk when facing a police officer. They deserve respect, and
too should anyone, black or white who is stopped by police to be treated
with respect. However, there is nothing that says if you do ask a
question, or seem to have an attitude, or you do have and attitude -
does not give a police person the right to shoot you, or get you beat to
a pulp.
Interesting, that I haven't heard of situations of female cops being so hard nosed, and shooting first, or wrestling someone to the ground and beating them up. It may happen, but more often a woman will work to answer questions with respect, and be respected for the uniform, and her attitude.
It's time and a must for police to wear video so we know what they face, and who, and how any confrontation goes down. It's hell to be put on the spot, after the fact, no matter which side you are on.
Interesting, that I haven't heard of situations of female cops being so hard nosed, and shooting first, or wrestling someone to the ground and beating them up. It may happen, but more often a woman will work to answer questions with respect, and be respected for the uniform, and her attitude.
It's time and a must for police to wear video so we know what they face, and who, and how any confrontation goes down. It's hell to be put on the spot, after the fact, no matter which side you are on.
Aug. 20 2014 12:53 PM
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Racism runs both ways. A black 30
year old sheriff who was 6'4" & weighed over 200 pounds walked
uninvited into my house after he rudely instructed me to secure my 14
year old Lab. I'm 70 white, 5'4" & weigh 115. I have a Masters &
am retired from 43 years teaching & volunteer at our VA in Dallas.
He lorded over me while 2 other sheriffs stood in my living room, 1 male
sheriff stood behind me, 1 female in front. I lived in Viet-Nam &
have PTSD. I don't like anyone to stand to the rear of me. After I
explained that I was the new owner of the house & that no drugs were
in my house. They trio left with the 2 men laughing as they got into
their car. After numerous phone calls, I suggested to the young man's
supervisor that he take more sensitivity training. The same black
sheriff returned 6 months later. This time I called 911 to have the
Dallas police as back up. No one entered my home. Prejudice & racism
are alive in all neighborhoods. Having strong ethical leadership in
both the federal & local government, as well as other leadership
roles such as school boards, will help the process of trust &
respect.
Aug. 20 2014 12:39 PM
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Valid point, Jim. As an
African-American male, I'm more worried about being shot by a criminal
than a police officer because I'm not the typical African-American male
(college-educated, no criminal record, no out-of-wedlock kids).
Aug. 20 2014 12:31 PM
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Host asks youth guest 'how many
times have you feared about being shot.' Guest answers 'five.' Host
then PRESUMES and SUGGESTS that the fear is of being shot by police,
though that was not in the question asked. Lots of kids in Chicago get
shot and have fear of being shot, but not necessarily by police.
Aug. 20 2014 12:13 PM
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That may be true, Peg, but the
difference is the likelihood that you'll be killed if you if you disobey
is far greater depending on your color.
Aug. 20 2014 11:22 AM
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As a white parent, I also gave my
children "the talk" - about how to behave with adults about how to
behave when driving and stopped by a law enforcement officer. Respectful
answers, stay in your vehicle, lower your eyes, say yes sir and no
sir, provide proper identification... Any beligerance, provocation,
resistence will result in an unpleasant situation with police. Everyone
stopped by a cop has to behave this way - whatever their color.
Aug. 20 2014 09:25 AM
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