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252 comments
Australia Couldn't do anything about it, even when Australia issued travel warning goes to Indonesia the airways still crowded by passenger from Australia to Indonesia
Abbott and Bishop could only to Delay the execution but they cant Cancel it Or Change to life prison.
why they so desperate to do that? because they want happy ending on their own stories, and interest.
Australian people might think if Abbott and Bishop fail to save those drug traffickers, their diplomacy will be questionable.
To the people of Indonesia, I don't judge you on what Joko does, so don't judge me on what Abbott does. I didn't vote for this village idiot, maybe you didn't vote for your village idiot either. Joko will go where the majority is so you the people of Indonesia can change his opinion more than anything that any other country can say or offer. If you, the people of Indonesia believe that Andrew, Myuran & the rest of those who will die beside them, deserve it, than continue to keep your mouths shut & say nothing. Just pray you will never need a second chance in this life, let alone the afterlife.This will effect the people of Indonesia more than they can imagine in the coming years, this is far from a threat but more of sadness for the people of Indonesia who are decent human beings who value life.
P.S. These are lives that serve way more purpose alive than dead, if you can't see that than I guess we might meet in hell afterall!
Skullcrash, that comment may sound harsh (for "those few" who can't take it), but you have a point!!
Can we start some kind of poll here as to who is the biggest dickhead, Abbott or Widodo. Abbott has had substantially longer to establish his dickheadedness, but Joko has come along way in such a short period of time.
Dickhead's run both of our countries but they both needed the majority of the vote to get to that position in the first place. That says alot about the majority of the people in both countries. Start individually using your own brains & piss them both off. Don't bother watching your daily news forcefed bullshit to base your opinions. Do your own homework, use your own common sense & please use your own fucking brain because second hand excuses never went too far!
Well, to be fair, unless people don't vote, they're kind of stuck. Here we had either Jokowi or Prabowo, so it's not like voters made the mistake of the century. Not too savvy on Australian politics, though I'd imagine your voters didn't jilt superman in favour of Abbott...
As far as the poll goes, I'd choose Jokowi.
australia has just announced an aid package for VANUATU...
and they do not have a death penalty...that will avoid a political stoush
You know what acro! As an Indonesian, I would really support the desire of some haters here to refuse all aids package from Australia to Indonesia, if that's what the government really wishes. I think it's time Indonesia starts to learn standing on their own feet. In a way, these will also help the government looking at the finance much more closely, leaving no room for corruptions.
The definition of sovereignty is more to do with our own ability to manage the resources and build the country much more independently. It's nothing to do with making a consideration on the plea of a friendly neighbour. As it stands now, many Indonesians think they can do what they cannot (or haven't proven to be able to) actually do.
i know what you are saying...but this is just a family squabble and in time it will all heal...dont give up on australia and we wont give up on indonesia..remember its easier to fall down a ladder than to climb it...there are good people on both sides and i am sure all wounds will heal....i dont think for a second that if there is another disaster in indonesia that australia wont help..we live in hope...that is the nature of man
I consider that both are not "popular" leaders in their respective countries. Jokowi won the direct election by a slim margin. In Australia, it's just so happened that Coalition leader at the time of election was Tony Abbott and the infighting in the labor party helped paving the way for Coalition's victory (I'm happy for the Australians to correct me if I'm wrong).
Jokowi seems to be an excessively-inward looking president which correlates too well with his core skill "blusukan". He hasn't shown absolutely any diplomatic and negotiation skills. Prabowo might have been right. I wasn't only referring to Jokowi's approach with Brazil and Australia, but it's evident in his interaction with the opposition.
Australians like me, conservative but non-voters normally, voted for Abbott because we were sick of the idiots in the ALP who were running the joint into the ground as well as infighting.
Now we got a loose cannon like Abbott who, despite having done some good things, like stopping the boats and facing down the growing Muslim threat within, is doing silly things like bringing back the British knighthood system and spending fortunes on idiosyncratic ventures like submarines, fighter planes, and financing the search for a plane that's never likely to be found.
I shall just return to my normal non-voter status next time around.
Not the mistake of the century but if we were to have a re-election right now this instance, I would give Prabowo a chance instead. Wayyyy too disappointed with JKW. There goes another 5 years of stagnancy!
Disappointed too. Kpk and inability to control his ministers aside, the whole war on drugs/clemency thing is too much. Whether he truly does support the dp or whether he has let himself be maneuvered into this position, it's really all the same. A man who doesn't value human life and is either ignorant enough to believe dodgy statistics or knowingly lies to the people about them.
In response to pnggvnn
1. I'm not against the death penalty per se, nor do I abhor the sovereign right of
Indonesia to enforce it's laws including capital punishment. I do however believe that discretion, compassion, clemency and mercy are godly qualities which must be reflected by heads of state, kings or rulers when circumstances are justified in granting such favours. Observation of law must always be tempered by discretion and mercy. In this case the granting of clemency is entirely at the discretion of the Indonesian president. The current appeal of Chan and Sukamaran is to question whether due assessment has been given to their individual cases or whether their rehabilitation has been adequately considered.
2. This is the essential point of the 2007 constitutional law in Indonesia stating that death sentences be commuted to life inprisonment in cases where demonstrated rehabilitation has taken place after 10 years imprisonment.
More about this point here:
3. In the case of heinous crimes involving murder, where the criminal expresses no remorse, refuses to acknowledge either the gravity of their actions or the grief of the family and associates of the victim/s, nor shows any prospect of rehabilitation but remains steadfastly criminal in their character, such cases would justify capital punishment. The execution of Muklas, Amrozi and Imam Samudra after their murder of hundreds of people aroused little public outcry in Australia for this reason. Their actions were not perceived as defending Islam but as brutal and criminal in the extreme with absolutely zero remorse on the part of the perpetrators and no benefit to the good name of Islam whatsoever.
1. I'm not against the death penalty per se, nor do I abhor the sovereign right of
Indonesia to enforce it's laws including capital punishment. I do however believe that discretion, compassion, clemency and mercy are godly qualities which must be reflected by heads of state, kings or rulers when circumstances are justified in granting such favours. Observation of law must always be tempered by discretion and mercy. In this case the granting of clemency is entirely at the discretion of the Indonesian president. The current appeal of Chan and Sukamaran is to question whether due assessment has been given to their individual cases or whether their rehabilitation has been adequately considered.
2. This is the essential point of the 2007 constitutional law in Indonesia stating that death sentences be commuted to life inprisonment in cases where demonstrated rehabilitation has taken place after 10 years imprisonment.
More about this point here:
3. In the case of heinous crimes involving murder, where the criminal expresses no remorse, refuses to acknowledge either the gravity of their actions or the grief of the family and associates of the victim/s, nor shows any prospect of rehabilitation but remains steadfastly criminal in their character, such cases would justify capital punishment. The execution of Muklas, Amrozi and Imam Samudra after their murder of hundreds of people aroused little public outcry in Australia for this reason. Their actions were not perceived as defending Islam but as brutal and criminal in the extreme with absolutely zero remorse on the part of the perpetrators and no benefit to the good name of Islam whatsoever.
4. As the soul is eternal, death of the body is temporary in any case. However, to kill without appropriate consideration and where mercy is justified causes negative consequences irrespective of the worldly circumstances, since we all have to justify our actions before God. These are universal principles, as we are all ultimately under the laws of the Supreme Lord.
5. I don't believe any of the points I've made are jigoistic. I'm not in the business of zealously defending criminals and wrongdoers. I'm defending the application of clemency, compassion and mercy where it is justified, irrespective of nationality. Your point that all prisoners are rebabilitated doesn't make sense. Only some prisoners are remorseful about their actions and attempt to rehabilitate their character, and it is these persons who should be shown mercy. This is a central tenant of law as well as religion.
This is not a complex situation. Allow the appeals to be heard and clemencies granted. Show some dignity and compassion and let the prisoners return to Bali prison to live out their lives in peace. Australia have always considered Indonesia as a friend, helping out in need. Yet, it seems to be a one-sided relationship at times.
Are you against the death sentence or are against the death sentence of Australian passport holder?
All convictect are rehabilitate after few years in prison?
Allow me to examine the key issues here:
1. The long term potential diplomatic and economic fallout from Australia if Indonesia insists on conducting the executions may be severe. I'm sure the amount of media coverage and public sentiment in Australia surrounding these pending executions has been significantly larger than Indonesia anticipated. This has been headline news in Australia for weeks.
2.Indonesia has to weigh up the law of diminishing returns. Most experts regard capital punishment as having little benefit in the attempt to address the problems of drug addiction. Is it objectively and empirically beneficial to execute the prisoners where there will be no tangible advantage in any economical, political or moral dimension?
3.Indonesian President Joko Widodo's international standing may be diminished even if his domestic political stocks rise if he steadfastly refuses clemency, specifically to Chan and Sukamaran. In addition, frankly, I find the execution of any woman (in this case Mary Veloso) appalling irrespective of the crime she may have committed.
4. As pointed out by the author, Australia and Indonesia have a close relationship. In the event of a natural disaster, Australians can be relied upon to contribute generously to any such unforseen event. Australians also contribute greatly to the Indonesian economy through tourism and foreign aid. It would be naive to suggest that that executing these men will have no negative effect on the relationship or that it will be quickly forgotten.
5. There are an abundance of negative perceptions of Islam in the western sphere due to the activities of extremists. Indonesia plays a crucial role in enhancing a positive view of Islam by being democratic, moderate and reformist. Unfortunately, conducting mass executions will do nothing to enhance either the political, diplomatic or moral dimension of Islam.
1. The long term potential diplomatic and economic fallout from Australia if Indonesia insists on conducting the executions may be severe. I'm sure the amount of media coverage and public sentiment in Australia surrounding these pending executions has been significantly larger than Indonesia anticipated. This has been headline news in Australia for weeks.
2.Indonesia has to weigh up the law of diminishing returns. Most experts regard capital punishment as having little benefit in the attempt to address the problems of drug addiction. Is it objectively and empirically beneficial to execute the prisoners where there will be no tangible advantage in any economical, political or moral dimension?
3.Indonesian President Joko Widodo's international standing may be diminished even if his domestic political stocks rise if he steadfastly refuses clemency, specifically to Chan and Sukamaran. In addition, frankly, I find the execution of any woman (in this case Mary Veloso) appalling irrespective of the crime she may have committed.
4. As pointed out by the author, Australia and Indonesia have a close relationship. In the event of a natural disaster, Australians can be relied upon to contribute generously to any such unforseen event. Australians also contribute greatly to the Indonesian economy through tourism and foreign aid. It would be naive to suggest that that executing these men will have no negative effect on the relationship or that it will be quickly forgotten.
5. There are an abundance of negative perceptions of Islam in the western sphere due to the activities of extremists. Indonesia plays a crucial role in enhancing a positive view of Islam by being democratic, moderate and reformist. Unfortunately, conducting mass executions will do nothing to enhance either the political, diplomatic or moral dimension of Islam.
6. The common ground between the spiritual traditions of Islam and Christianity (as well as all other authoritative religious traditions) is the importance of redemption. Indeed, redemption can be seen as the core or raison d'être of the struggle for salvation in any spiritual path advocated by the mainstream religious traditions.
7. The rehabilitation and character reformation of Chan and Sukamaran is widely known, and it is for this reason that enormous public sentiment and goodwill toward Indonesia in Australia may be compromised if these executions take place. Indeed, Indonesian law states that after 10 years in prison rehabilitation is to be taken into account in capital crimes. It appears that this has not been the case.
8. Chan and Sukamaran represent an important narrative about the value of redemption. Executing them sends a dangerous message that rehabilitation and character reformation are pointless within the Indonesian prison system and robs Indonesia of a valuable opportunity to promote its credentials in the area of conducting a progressive and reformative penal system.
Look we as Australians have to respect the Indonesian law, or any law for that matter. What we are asking for, is simple. Don't execute, let them stay in jail for life. It's simple.
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