World
Arrest ordered for woman
who fled with son over
circumcision
Matt Sedensky, The Associated Press, Delray Beach, Florida | World | Wed, March 11 2015, 7:15 AM
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Plain stupidity and utter bullshits. Why would you have to force the kid to go trough this psychological pain? Why not just let him decide for himself what to do with it when he grows up? As of now, just train him how to clean it on a daily basis and how to aim for the right angle when peeing. My dad trained me to do just that when I was a kid. Whatever happened to the old school way of raising kids? Jeezz....
You cannot win this argument with either Muslims or Jews. I really do not understand why you bother trying.
The child may escape the mutilation if he lived in Indonesia. The report suggest he lives in the USA. There is NO HOPE he can escape mutilation there. The Govt. there is owned by the powerful Jewish lobby.
A mother's duty is to protect her child from harm. Circumcision constitutes genital mutilation and should be a criminal offense in all countries, even those in which primitive religious rituals still survive.
Bill and Melinda Gates foundation has injected million of dollars for circumcision program in Africa.
yeah hot or even cold running and in some places even water is an issue, along with the required sanitation
Yes, but there were protests against Bill & Melinda Gates foundation from all over the world; NCFM (National Coalition For Men (USA), Canadian Foreskin Awareness Project (CAN-FAP), Attorneys for the Rights of the Child (UK) and many more.
hilarious name for an organisation
but the acronym has me in stitches
can fap
dear oh deear
They're making a quilt out of the skins. You have to find something to amuse yourself when you're so rich that you've already bought ten of everything that you ever wanted.
elephants are always best avoided, such openness is also mostly something to be shied away from by the tough macho type.
Not me though babe, in fact, and as you know, I am just a pussycat with a very direct and open manner gets me into so much trouble
cheers
Yep! you're a mischief boy! I know you long enough...I hate you sometimes but I still love you ;)
well-what can i say-other than let go of your hate, i did long ago, all it does is eat you up inside, even that dingo Jagera gets lots of stick but no hate :)
There is not such thing that circumcision gives risks such as difficulty in urinating, loss of part or all of the penis, and even death. From this only only, I can judge the myth and fact list by Jok-O-No is ridiculous. There are 250 million people in Indonesia, and it is safe I can assume more than 100 million people got circumcised. Never heard of the cases like in the list.
The facts shown is actually the myth. My son was born in the US and got circumcised right after he was born (because it was free and suggested by the doctors). I saw it myself. It was not like that. My other son got circumcised in the hospital in Indonesia when he was 7, and it was not like that either. I had my experience myself, it was not like that either.
Too much lying is not good for your health, JOO.
So ... what you are saying is the free choice not to have your child circumcised should result in jail for the parent and forced genital mutilation (lets call it what it is after all)
Usually you can insult Islam every time you want. In this case you can be called antisemit à nd anti jews.
a well balanced and liberal analysis of genital mutilation ... no really it is
BTW - I insult those who use Islam for violent and oppressive means - I really don't give a fuck what you believe until you use those believes to control/oppress/dictate/kill - THAT goes for all religions - the reality is today 99% of religious violence is in the name of the one god .. the god of Muslims -
If the child wants to make the choice when he is grown up to be circumcised that is his choice, His body, his choice. Why do people think they have the right to do this to anothers body?
@brawijaya don't be lazy Bra boy just type "risks of circumcision" and look for yourself -
Actually Brawi, there are plenty of cases of botched male circumcision in Indonesia and elsewhere. Also many more of the female version.
No, I do not believe in your info. I am so sorry. It is an everyday life in Jakarta and nobody talk about any cases. You may check your info. Tonsil and appendix surgery is much more risky than circumcision. Female circumcision is not common in Indonesia. In fact it is rare. It is common in Africa. However, that one is another topic.
Regardless of the associated risks, appendectomy is not performed unless truly necessary (i.e. the patient has an infection that will lead to acute blood poisoning if left untreated), and tonsillectomy is performed after repeated infections of the tonsils that cause unnecessary suffering to the patient. Can you say the same for most cases of circumcision?
The hygiene consideration for circumcision is well known. When I was a child, several times I got infection for many causes. That was before I got circumcised. Just last year, my son wanted to have circumcised, and to all my surprise, the doctor said we had to wait until the infection that my kid had was gone. My wife and I was so surprise that he had infection in his penis and we did not know about it. I thought we were being lucky not to postpone the procedure for another semester. We never have any problems with my older son who got circumcised when he was just born in the US.
Many non-muslim kids in Indonesia got circumcised too.
Ohh, don't try to lecture me about hygiene. We don't play with Koalas or chasing Kangaroo thru the bushes. But we do let my kids play with dirts as suggested by some parenting books (not like some Indonesians who become germaphobes).
Please don't try to straw man me on an argument I wasn't going to offer.
To be clear, are you claiming that infected pre-cirumcision penis is a major issue in Indonesia?
p.s. may be useful not to assume that every anglophone on this site is Australian (re your koala comments etc.)
Brawi, i don't believe your "nobody talk about any cases" info either, sorry. All surgery risks infection. What do you think happens when you have mass circumcisions in the kampung where hygiene standards are poor?
Of course no one talks about it, Indonesia is obsessed with cutting the end of penises and people don't want it discouraged. It's something that has disturbed me since my marriage when my soon to be Indonesian inlaws tried to insist on getting me checked to make sure i was clipped. I was equal parts appalled and amused.
There is evidence it helps desert dwelling people avoid infection because of sand getting trapped under the foreskin and some slim evidence of lesser HIV rates but worldwide, the medical consensus is against it. When science proves its worth then i will change my attitude.
Well, a little infection is OK. It is harmless. As I said, more than 100 million people got circumcision procedure, nothing about the risks mentioned is happened. I do not know why in the US now has a group dedicated to go against it. They said it is barbaric. So I guess this group has a deep hate toward Jews.... because the Americans associate circumcision with Jews (not with muslims).
As for your experience. well you know that Indonesians view man with uncircumcised penis as unclean, and sometimes make a joke for Indonesian woman who get married to foreigners like you about your penis. The parents worry that the uncircumcised one will give germs to their daughters. So, when you talk about hygiene standard in kampung is poor, people in kampung has something to say to you about hygiene: you are unclean, bau, and 'ceboknya pakai kertas'. Hehehe....
@brawijaya. Kampungan Westerners say things about you that would make a whore blush. Difference is, the more educated types don't find it funny.
I never said whether i was cut or not Brawi... I was talking about the topic objectively. Implying i might be "bau" is interesting given i shower twice daily and use deodorant LOL. Circumcised or not, if you clean it, it won't transmit germs or stink.
As i understand it, the cut is still quite popular in the US, Jewish or not. Europe is a different story. The doctors in the US who promote the cut for medical reasons tend to be Jewish though.
My personal view is the cut is unnecessary until proven otherwise.
I know what you mean re the inlaws. Do you find yourself under scrutiny at public urinals btw? I seem to get a lot of people trying to cop a peek :-/
Yeah Keto, i get the peek...I notice more because i am quite tall and see their heads moving, sideways towards me LOL Cheeky buggers!
Keto and Nate, you pee in public? seriously you two are very very bad boys! you need to be spanked!
Well, my dear, I have ambitions to be a tukang ojek or a bus driver. Part of the qualification is how often and how brazenly you can urinate in public. It's a tough life. Personally, I find the 20 kretek a day and all the hey, mister shouting to be quite stressful.
Snap, I could only guess at the reaction that would get! I could create a whole new reputation for bules to add to the amusing list. Bau, well endowed, rich and pissing exhibitionists... ;)
No, nobody try to take a look at mine. People are trying to take a peek of yours out curiosity what the uncircumcised penis look like. Hahaha.... Sorry, I find it hilarious but that is true. Another reason is to see how big the Caucasian's is..... People get hear say about it, and they want to see it by their own eyes. Hahaha.... it is ridiculous, but it is true.
So what you are saying Brawi, is that Indonesians are both obsessed with cutting skin off penises and perving on Bules as well? LOL Like i said, cheeky buggers! ;)
They are usually kids with high curiosity, because they hear about it or watch it from the porn material, I suppose. So, if yours is not as big as those belong to the stars, they will get disappointed. "Kok kecil sih..." Hehehe..... But it should not happen in large cities where foreigners are many. In small city or rural area, people even want to touch your hand just out of curiosity why the skin is so different (either you are white or black, the reaction would be the same).
I thought pornography was banned here! The peek, as Keto puts it, happens everywhere. In the rural areas people stop and stare like i've grown another head. I've never really come across a large public urinal out in the rural areas though...
I thought it was haram to show yours or look at another guys junk?? Given 85% of Indonesia is Muslim and that part of the body is where they should be most modest.... Just a thought.
"I thought it was haram to show yours or look at another guys junk?? Given 85% of Indonesia is Muslim and that part of the body is where they should be most modest...."
Just get yourself a penis jilbab. Rp 8,000 in nylon, Rp 12,000 in cotton, Rp 25,000 in silk or Rp 250,000 in armour plated kevlar.
I am sorry Bra boy? Female circumcision, (lets call it what is it Female and Male Genital Mutilation) is rare in Indonesia. Hello this is planet earth calling. According to the WHO 92% of Javanese Muslims condone the practice and intend to continue the "the ritual" (what an abuse of English) with the children and grandchildren. You really need to stop making things up.
I know you are a lazy sod Bra B so here is a link to many articles on the Subject. If still not enough, let me know and I will supply more.
Then and only then, I would hope you delete your comment about me lying. Thanks so much xxx
.intactamerica.org/news
Wow, you call yourself a smart girl, but you use information about circumcision from the group that bitterly against circumcision for a very dubious reason. This group of jews haters swap facts with myths and vice versa. Well, I have enough information. In the US, circumcision is NOT about religion. Only less than 3% muslims there, and about the same number of jews. So about a total of 6% of man in the US have a belief of circumcision based on religion. More than 45% others do it for medical reason.
Oh I won't delete my comment, and you are still a liar. This article is not about religion, but it is about circumcision. It is a small surgery to take out a very small part of penis. No big deal. Although you girl hate Islam so much for no reason, I am sure that you are very familiar to circumcised penis because you see them in adult movie... I suppose. Hihihi.... Jok-girl, you are just being funny.
Of course its a big deal. It is in the vast majority of cases unwarranted at best description surgery, at worst butchery performed by poorly educated local practitioners. All surgery carries risks and Indonesia is littered with cases of botched circumcisions and post procedure infections.
It remains mutilation sadly justified by religion, custom or poor education or a combination of all three. However mutilation it is and nothing can change that description.
"It is in the vast majority of cases unwarranted"
Except in cases of corruption where I'm advocating full-body circumcision - removal of the skin from the head down to the waistline.
Ok you have got me there Fred, in fact I can think of one regular troll poster who would definitely get my vote for the surgery.
Bra boy, the articles are from all over the world, not one site. You are both a fool and liar. Silly boy.
Here are the credentials from the Org intactamerica. Can we see yours too please.
I. Steering Committee
Much of what Intact America has accomplished over the last year and a half is due to the time, energy, and ideas so generously provided by long-time intactivists, volunteers, and supporters, people who have been in favor of ending infant circumcision for decades. Our Steering Committee is currently comprised of several such intactivists, including:
Daniel H. Bollinger, BA [Director, International Coalition for Genital Integrity (ICGI)]
Amber Craig [Director, NOCIRC of NC]
John D. Geisheker, JD, LLM [Executive Director and General Counsel, Doctors Opposing Circumcision (DOC)]
Gregory J. Hartley [Director, NOCIRC of PA]
Marilyn Milos, RN [Founder & Executive Director, National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers (NOCIRC)]
Mark Reiss, MD [Vice President, DOC]
David Smith [Director, NORM- UK]
J. Steven Svoboda, Esq. [Founder and Executive Director, Attorneys for the Rights of the Child(ARC)]
III. Board of Health Professionals
The Intact America Board of Health Professionals includes physicians, nurses, childbirth professionals, mental health experts, and others in the medical or health field who support Intact America’s principles and agenda. Members of this board may be involved in work that has nothing to do with circumcision, or just a small facet of their professional interests. From having personal conversations with patients on the issue to publishing articles in internationally renowned medical journals, members of the Board of Health Professionals contribute to the cause on a variety of different levels.
Kenneth J. Baker, MD, FACOG
Paula Brinkley, MD, MPH, FAAP
Adrienne J. K. Carmack, MD
George C. Denniston, MD, MPH
Larry Dossey, MD
Sumathi Kasinathan, MD
Gloria LeMay [Contributing Editor, Midwifery Today]
Margaret (Peggy) Leonard, MS, RN-BC, FNP
Gillian Longley RN, BSN, MSS
Christiane Northrup, MD
Brian O'Donnell, MHS PA-C
James Pate, MD
Mark Reiss, MD
Martha Roth, CNM
Lauren Shaiova, MD
Michelle R. Storms, MD
Sarah E. Strandjord, MD, FAAP
John W. Travis, MD, MPH
IV. Board of Scholars
The Intact America Board of Scholars includes bioethicists, philosophers, educators, academicians, and authors who support Intact America’s principles and agenda. Members of this board have invested themselves in the issues and philosophies supported by Intact America in a way that ties them into the thought leadership on ending infant circumcision. They may speak out publicly, give lectures, write books, or advocate through academic writing and research.
Katherine Buechner-Arthaud, MDiv
David Cassuto PhD, JD
James Dwyer, PhD, JD
Linda Fentiman, JD, LLM
Leonard Glick, MD, PhD
Alexandro José Gradilla, PhD
Hanny Lightfoot-Klein, MA
Reverend Manish K. Mishra-Marzetti
Margaret A. Plumbo RN, MS, CNM
J. Steven Svoboda, Esq.
Reverend Nathan C. Walker, Minister
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