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Sunday, July 19, 2015

Gizmodo= CA Freeway after Fire and drones interfering with Firefighters

LA Freeway Looks Post-Apocalyptic After Drones Delay Firefighters

Dozens of charred, abandoned cars made for a surreal landscape after a massive wildfire swept across a major Southern California freeway yesterday afternoon. Early this morning officials confirmed that five drones flying over the scene hindered firefighters’ response and caused the fire to jump the freeway.
According to an early morning report by NBC LA, five drones were seen flying over the fire, and two of the drones interfered directly with firefighting aircraft, forcing planes to jettison their fire retardant early and return to the San Bernardino Airport.
Battalion Chief Marc Peebles of San Bernardino County Fire Department said firefighting efforts were directly hampered by the drones:
Two drones actually gave chase to air units, and the incident delayed response by about 15 to 20 minutes.
When asked if the delay contributed to the fire jumping the 15 Freeway, Peebles said “It definitely contributed to it.”
On-the-scene reports showed people fleeing burning cars and running down the freeway for help as the fire grew behind them.
This is the third time in a month that drones have interfered with firefighters in Southern California. In a video from NBC LA, John Miller of U.S. Forest Service reiterated the danger of flying drones near firefighting aircraft:
“It can kill our firefighters in the air ... They can strike one of these things and one of our aircraft could go down, killing the firefighters in the air. This is serious to us. It is a serious, not only life threat, not only to our firefighters in the air, but when we look at the vehicles that were overrun by fire, it was definitely a life-safety threat to the motorists on Interstate 15.”
Although firefighters originally called the fire a “multi-casualty incident,” no deaths were reported, but several people are being treated for burns. The fire is still burning and as of early this morning had spread over 3,500 acres with only 5% contained.
David McNew / Getty Images
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The following replies are approved. To see additional replies that are pending approval, click Show Pending. Warning: These may contain graphic material.
  • What they really need is a directed EMP weapon that can knock drones down without any fuss or bother. I'm sure somebody is working on it.
        • except an EMP is omni-directional - it goes outward in a bubble from the emitter. everything in that bubble with running electronics instantly stops working - like the water bombing helicopters too..
          • You can, however, have a local jammer that blocks whatever the normal frequencies used to control the drones. It wouldn’t necessarily knock them out of the sky, but with the operator unable to control them they’ll crash or drift off site
          • Two drones actually gave chase to air units
            Excuse me? I’m sorry the drones gave chase to the utility helicopters used by the fire department? I’m not sure exactly which aircraft the fire department was using, but the average cruise speed of a firefighting helicopter would be about 125 knots. Little bit slower if it’s hauling water. How exactly did these two drones manage to give chase to helicopters moving at 143 mph? How did the helicopter crews even see the drones amidst all the smoke and fire? 

            This just smells like a bullshit statement to me.
            • BrianorcaReddishPlains
              What they probably mean is, the helicopter swerved left to avoid the drone, and the drone followed. When the helicopter swerved right, the drone followed again, essentially blocking the path. I don’t think they were watching their “6” as they returned to base. I don’t think they wanted to push closer to the drone to see if it would blink.
              • the drones just have to be in the immediate area by the fires and chase the helicopters as they came in range of the drop zone. its not like the drones were following the choppers from where they got the water...
                so all they have to do is buzz around the area where they wanted to drop water
                its pretty logical
                  • Funny how you can tell which posters are against douchebags flying their toys near where adults are working and which are those very same douchebags.
                    • To be fair, maybe they should be banned within a certain range of firefighters trying to you know, do important things. Cameras are good enough to where you don’t need to chase helicopters around to get a good shot of things.
                        • Technically, they already are. Fire operations like this trigger a TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) from the FAA, which looks like this: http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/det...
                          The TFR superscedes the Class G airspace drones can normally fly in. 
                          But maybe they should pass a law that actually criminalizes this. I think it’s just a civil punishment right now.
                          • ExAlissa Walker
                            So, you’re the tech site. Let’s see the story about the civilian drone that can effectively chase an air tanker flying over 130 mph!
                          • BSimAlissa Walker
                            Something doesn’t seem right here: Did the authorities not see the potential intersection of wildfire and freeway far enough in advance to stop traffic and then, I don’t know, send in those red truck things with the sirens that spray that wet stuff on fires?
                            It just seems odd that people would be allowed to stand still in their cars on a freeway with a wildfire barreling down on them with no authorities to give them warning to clear out or firefighters to confront the advancing flames. This almost sounds like a ridiculously implausible scene from an M. Knight Shyamalan movie about an intelligent fire. 
                            Could it be the firefighters botched their response to the blaze and are now trying to blame “drones” for something that simply should never have been allowed to happen?
                            • Dude, this isn’t the firefighters fault. The fire was too fast moving due to the winds. According to the LA Times, the fire department was already in the area trying to put out the fire when the wind blew embers across the highway and it all went up like the fourth of July. No one expected that to happen, no one expected it to grow as quickly as it did, and no one expected cars to start catching on fire. Luckily, no one was killed.
                              • No, chief, the fire was sudden enough to cause traffic to have to stop (I’m sure you would have just plowed on through,methought, right?) and without the ability to turn off or around, traffic piled up.
                                It's not rocket science, and happens with some regularity.
                                • No, it doesn’t always work like that. It’s wilderness out there around the freeway, with a LOT of tinder. The fires can jump really quickly. I remember a fire there once where they barely had time to evacuate a neighborhood. People were running down the streets with their pets, everyone (even pets haha) dressed in pajamas. They couldn’t even get their cars out in time because of the quick staging that had to be done. 
                                  • So once again, some dickhead decided that their fun with their drone was more important than everyone else. Way to go, assholes, you just gave the government another excuse to clamp down on drones for those of us who actually use them for non-idiotic purposes. We’ll likely get some legislation now banning their use or severely limiting it instead of something sensible like maybe a right-of-way rule where large aircraft trump drones.
                                      • Or, stories like this are being exaggerated or outright fabricated to assure that the only drones in the air are US government owned. With a fire this large and fast moving, you would think that the person controlling the drone would have been in as much danger as anyone else. Also, where are the reports of people spotting these supposed drone operators? This smacks of that stupid NYPD policy that guns could be made to look like cell phones, so it was an immediate threat to the officer if you attempted to film him with a cell phone, which was based on a single Interpol report from Sicily, IIRC.
                                          • WeedszacAlissa Walker
                                            How exactly does a fire “jump” onto a freeway? A freeway is metal and pavement, neither of which I thought were flammable...
                                            • Ok, so there are these things called embers that the wind can pick up and blow. That’s what happened here. The fire was on one side of the highway. The wind picked up embers and blew them onto the other equally dry side of the highway. That’s how it “jumped.” Then cars started catching on fire because of other embers. And suddenly, you’ve got a fucking fire on a fucking highway.
                                              • Blowing flammable debris. It’s something that happens a lot in California. Usually, they shut freeways down if the fire is threatening to jump it, but this one was going too fast and they didn’t close the freeway in time.
                                                  • Wind carries the embers over the fire break, in this case the 15, it jumps the fire break.
                                                  • I feel like the part “After drones delay firefighters” is unnecessary. Yes, they delayed the airplanes/helicopters, but would it have been that much different if they hadn’t been delayed. I think it had looked like a post-apocalyptic wasteland no matter if firefighters were delayed or not. Those fires are so hot and fast, the best firefighters can do is contain it and hope it burns itself out.
                                                      • BrianorcaZelda did it!
                                                        Some targeted water/retardant drops could have certainly protected a structure like the highway, even if the fire continued to burn around it. The drones prevented them from delivering that in a timely way. Unless you were actually there, you don’t know what could or couldn’t have been done. Somebody who was there is quoted in the article saying “It definitely contributed to it.”
                                                        • Stop trying to justify idiots with RC quad copters getting the way of real work. I’ll make you a deal - if your house catches on fire, I’ll block the firefighters with a bunch of remote control douchebag machines so we can test your “it would have been that much different” theory.
                                                          • kmnbsZelda did it!
                                                            Totally wrong. These fires can be delayed by immediate intervention - I live in a high fire potential zone and there is no question that immediate intervention with water or retardant can save structures and could have stopped this fire from jumping the freeway. Not 100% sure, but could have. The other thing that “could have” happened as a result of this delay is people could have been unable to escape and died. 
                                                              • only if inferior journalist are involved...
                                                                Here at jalopnik they should offer the possibility to down vote articles, beside the “star” (aka up vote), and bad journalists, that keep on getting low marks should be blasted out of here.
                                                                  • If you defend this title right here, and being of quality journalism you have no actual brain power, and you might just be another brainwashed...(wait for it)...drone.
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