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Friday, July 18, 2014

The Buck Stops With Putin for Downing Plane: Forbes

Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor
I cover domestic and world economics from a free-market perspective

Some people will object that this Opinion article comes from a "Banker's magazine," but I have pretty much the same point of view as this author and I have no great fondness for banks or Wall Street operators.

I am, however, going to print the comments posted to this article, some of which take violent and personal exception to it.

In the long haul, to me this plane incident would not have occurred at all if Putin had not started his intrusion into Ukraine and that is the basic fact of the matter.

Opinion
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7/18/2014 @ 12:22AM |33,595 views

Smoking Guns: Russian Separatists Shot Down Malaysian Flight MH17; Putin Must Be Held Responsible

TO SEE VIDEOS;

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/18/smoking-guns-russian-separatists-shot-down-malaysian-plane/

 



Around 4:20 pm, a Malaysian 777 carrying 295 passengers and crew disappeared over east Ukrainian air space a few miles from the Russian border. It disappeared in virtually the same location as the Ukrainian military transport AN-26 shot down by a missile a few days before.
The social website of the self-appointed military commander, Colonel Igor Strelkov, of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, first celebrated the downing of the plane with the following 5:07 pm announcement on the Strelkov web site (see image):
igorstrelkov
“In the Torez region, they have destroyed an AN-26 transport plane. Its wreckage landed near the ‘Progress’ mine. This will teach them: Do not fly in ‘our skies.’ And here is the video confirming the ‘crash of the bird.’ The bird fell on open fields. It did not damage inhabited sectors. Peaceful people did not suffer. And there is information about a second destroyed plane; looks like an SU.” (With widespread wreckage perhaps those on the scene thought they had shot two for one?).
Shortly thereafter, the Strelkov website issued an announcement with capitalized letters:
ATTENTION. This announcement declared that the news of the downing of the AN-26 was not official but came from residents and militia members on the scene. The only official announcements are published under the banner: Strelkov INFORMS. In other words, Strelkov asks his readers to forget the earlier announcement of the successful downing of a fascist Ukrainian plane.
Ukraine intelligence services intercepted a series of purported phone calls from officers of the separatists to their superiors. Readers can listen to the YouTube. It’s in Russian, with English translations. Below I provide some excerpts.

The first call, from field commander “Bes (Demon)” to a Russian military intelligence colonel, Vasiliy Geranin, reported that a plane had been downed some 15 minutes earlier. Bes did not know the details but his people were going to photograph the site.

“Major” then reported to “Grek” at 5:32 pm that the plane had been destroyed by “Kazaks” at the check point Chernukhino and that the wreckage was that of a civilian plane, with a catering kitchen, bodies, chairs, documents. When asked whether the plane carried weapons, the answer was “no weapons.”

The third call at 5:42 from “Warrior” to “Kozitsin,” “Warrior” confirmed that it was a civilian plane, although the downed plane had earlier been called an AN-26 transport, that there was “a sea of bodies” of women and children and Indonesian university students, and was marked as an civilian Malaysian carrier. “Kozitsin” showed little concern and declared “the plane must have carried spies. We are in a war after all.”

The story that Russian mercenaries shot down the 777 by mistake makes complete sense. It appears to be confirmed by the commanding separatist officers and by those on the ground. It shows the shift in mood from celebration to foreboding as they learn they had killed hundreds of civilians.
Below is the video of heavy military equipment including missiles purportedly fleeing the scene from which the Malaysian 777 was shot down.

As to the availability of BUK missiles at check points like Chernukhino, the Associated Press reported that a similar launcher was seen by its journalists near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday. The BUK missile system can fire missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet).

In its July assessment, the U.S. State Department warned that Russia continues to accumulate significant amounts of equipment at a deployment site in southwest Russia. This equipment includes tanks of a type no longer used by the Russian military, as well as armored vehicles, multiple rocket launchers, artillery, and air defense systems….More advanced air defense systems have also arrived at this site. The State Department warned that: “We are concerned much of this equipment will be transferred to separatists, as we are confident Russia has already delivered tanks and multiple rocket launchers to them from this site.”

The London Daily Telegraph reports that Ukraine will present evidence of Russian military involvement in the Malaysian Air 777 crash. The military leader of the terrorists Igor Girkin (Strelkov) commented directly after the plane crash, believing that it was a Ukrainian jet that had been destroyed. As noted above, he later attempted to retract his earlier statement. Per the Telegraph, the Associated Press is reporting that one of its journalists saw a launcher that resembled a Russian BUK system—the kind that Ukrainian government says carried out the strike—in the vicinity.
Putin’s propaganda machine will launch a furious effort to blame Ukraine, the CIA, the U.S. State Department, or dark forces that have it in for Malaysian Airlines. It will find many conspiracy buffs to support its wild yarns. However, the true story is simple: The Russian mercenaries, having celebrated their downing of two Ukrainian air force planes, were ready for another triumph. They set their radar sights on an incoming plan which they assumed to be a Ukrainian military transport and shot it down. Within a few minutes, the separatist authorities and their Kremlin handlers knew they had shot down a civilian plane. They did not seem that shaken. As officer Kozikhin retorted: “Well the plane must have carried spies. Do they not know there is a war going on?”

Will the Russian downing of the Malaysian Air 777 and the loss of almost three hundred innocent lives make a difference in Russia’s war against Ukraine? Yes. If Putin has any sense, he will withdraw all his officers and intelligence agents from the scene. He will try to convince the world this was not Russia’s fault, but he cannot succeed in so doing. The attention of the world is now on east Ukraine, and news reporters can scarcely be denied free access. Even if denied access, there is plenty of evidence in the form of YouTube videos, intelligence reports, and eyewitness accounts that prove that Russia had already invaded Ukraine with tens of thousands of troops and heavy military equipment – facts that the West did not see or did not want to see. I doubt that the Russian public will be so enamored with Putin once they learn that his loyal people’s militias marauding in east Ukraine killed three hundred innocent people.

With respect to Putin, there are two interpretations: One is that he controls Russia almost single handedly with his noted vertical of power. If so, he must be held personally responsible for what his agents did. The second interpretation is that Russia is falling apart as mercenaries move themselves and heavy military equipment at will within Russia and across its borders.
Neither places Mr. Putin in an exactly favorable light. Let’s see how he squirms out of this.

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  • Paul Roderick Gregory Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor 13 hours ago
    Dear Readers:
    I am awaiting the comments of the usual Putin trolls. I want to see how they spin this one.
  • Hi Paul, we love you too.
    The spin is simple, the tape of conversation distributed by Ukrop KGB (SBU) was compiled on July 16, by the file stamp.
    It is either it wasn’t recorded by SBU (in US dealy 8 hours), or they are smarty pants.
    You got tough co-workers.
  • RussM RussM 7 hours ago
    You calling everyone that disagrees with you “Putin trolls” reveals your affiliation and loyalty.
    Let’s see… I live in California. You reside in Kiev, Ukraine and have never ever had criticism of the Ukraine authorities. Who is probably the troll?
  • RussM RussM 7 hours ago
    Dear Readers:
    Please take a moment to skim Paul Gregory’s other articles and read people’s comments and his responses to them. His common practice is to dismiss anyone who disagrees with him as “Putin trolls.”
    It doesn’t take a genius to conclude there’s probably a reason why Mr. Gregory, residing in Kiev, Ukraine has never offered any criticism for the Ukraine authorities and has on multiple occasions called for military intervention in Ukraine.
    You are a Kiev troll Mr. Gregory. Pure and simple.
  • RussM RussM 7 hours ago
    Dear Mr. Kiev Troll Gregory:
    Is the death of 20 civilians today due to shelling in Lugansk also the fault of the separatists? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-malaysia-airlines-crash-20-civilians-killed-in-luhansk-as-shelling-continues-9615101.html
  • RussM RussM 6 hours ago
    Dear Readers:
    If you would like to gain a better perspective, I recommend reading both sides of the story and watching real journalism (albeit mostly pro-western) like Vice News: https://news.vice.com/video/russian-roulette-dispatch-57
  • RememberMe RememberMe 5 hours ago
    A Spanish air traffic controller from Kiev reveals that 2 fighter jets were following MH17 and CNN’s aviation expert denies that it could have been a BUK missile. http://youtu.be/iLjfcttipu0
    By the way, Strelkov has NEVER had an official VK page.
  • Thank you for the article, dear mr. Paul Roderick Gregory, it’s very objective and informative. I’m Ukrainian and I confirm – all your words are true.
    And another thank you for your mention of “Putin trolls”. The problem of Ukraine is that we don’t pay much attention at commenting articles on foreign sites, ’cause we’ve got a lot of inside troubles to deal with.
    Meanwhile Russian “Putin trolls” do their dirty work commenting all the topics connected with Ukraine in the way of Russian propaganda. These people get money for that – this is the main thing. Working as an administrator of one of the big Ukrainian site, I’ve got a lot of proofs of “Putin trolls” activity, including screen-shots, lists of trolls’ IP numbers etc. If you ever get interested in this evidence material, I would be glad to present it to you.
    I suppose we can meet each other on Facebook.
  • This debunks the video supposedly showing the rebels talking about shooting down the airliner as fake, it shows the timestamp of the creation of the video as 1 day earlier & uploaded hours before the actual airliner shot down
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17
    &
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace
    “While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine’s “slam dunk” proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today’s MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today’s final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.
    Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today’s tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.
    Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.
    So perhaps before coming to “certain” conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?
  • leilamiller11 leilamiller11 9 hours ago
    Adomanis?
  • Paul Roderick Gregory Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor 8 hours ago
    Kommy and Economics Expert:
    I have been through this smoke blowing on file stamps before with the Eastern Sunday massacre organized by separatists in east Ukraine. Why not just admit that the terrorists shot down a passenger plane by mistake, apologize, and pay retribution?
  • Vasili Curd Vasili Curd 8 hours ago
    because what if they didn’t? Don’t rush to conclusions!
  • User_ajf User_ajf 11 hours ago
    @Putin Must Be Held Responsible
    hahahaha…rofl. Why then You dont go straight to Kremlin and arest him? I just imagine the scene:
    -PRG: nock, nock.
    -Putin: Whos there?
    -Paul Robert Gregory. I’v just arrived to arrest You over shooting down a civilian plane.
    Putin: WTF? Lavrov, surrender Novorossiya and call the immediate retreat from Crimea.
    …and after that you just woke-up in your neoliberal dandyland.
  • Merkel has already announced this will not lead to EU sanctions against Russia, so I don’t see how this will have any negative effects on Putin. And the Russian public will not get to hear the truth anyway.
  • Paul Roderick Gregory Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor 8 hours ago
    Deeply Concerned:
    If Russians believe the ludicrous stories Putin is cooking up, they definitely deserve him.
  • Danni Petrov Danni Petrov 10 hours ago
    Who is responsible ?!?!?
    This is outrageous!!
  • Brent Cruede Brent Cruede 10 hours ago
    “…Squirms”? No, that’s your style, not his. More about this later…
    As to all your ‘facts’ about the complex, (both as hardware AND software) Buk systems supposedly in the hands of these ‘rebels’, well… Wouldn’t it be better, as Putin has clearly said, to give some time for fact-finding BEFORE pointing fingers?… better than simply regurgitating the accusations that came IMMEDIATELY from the mouth of the Ukrainian president upon his learning of the tragic event? Draw conclusions first and find facts later… That’s the proven and oft-repeated style of the Ukrainian ‘authorities’. No ‘Squirmers’, they. As to motive, does anyone notice the fact that high ranking Ukrainian officials have vocally issued threats of death to the Russian president recently and that his presidential plane, nearly identical in its profile and markings, was also in the air that day? Only one thing IS certain about the Buk systems…. that they WERE certainly in the hands of the trigger-happy Ukrainian military, deployed and manned by trained personell capable of actually firing them and hitting a target.
    Why not let the facts tell the story, as the rest of the civilized world, with the exception of the Ukrainian government, is doing? I suppose you reason, along with Mr. Poroshenko, that premature finger-pointing is the opposite of ‘squirming’. It shows what a good grasp you also have of the psychological dimension of these tragic events.
  • Paul Roderick Gregory Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor 8 hours ago
    Brent:
    I understand. You are doing your job under difficult circumstances. I’d not like to be in your shoes. Putin should just come clean.
  • Brent Cruede Brent Cruede 10 hours ago
    Fat name, fat guy. A model American writing for a banker’s rag. You ‘swallow it whole’ and then your inevitable, hateful ‘stories’ are written before you sit down. You get my meaning. You are a one-trick pony and a perversion of the idea of journalism. BUT… ‘that said’, I do very much appreciate that reading you a few times has finally given me the motive that I needed to delete my ‘just out of curiosity’ link to ‘KievPost’. Я очен Вам благодарный за этого. Hasta la vista.
  • David Rayome David Rayome 9 hours ago
    Well this is a nice little media diversion from the border crisis going on.
  • leilamiller11 leilamiller11 9 hours ago
    USA Today…
    https://twitter.com/Dbnmjr/status/490008309177810944/photo/1
  • To add insult to injury, the boys from SBU realized they were caught red handed, and changed the file with new stamp.
    I tell what happened: Ukrops planned to kill Putin and pin it on freedom fighters, but ops, Putin went through Poland airspace instead.
    There is a video of An-26 falling same day, with burning right engine, this is a turboprop, but video labeled Boeing 777.
    Tell your handlers that they are working with smarty pants.
  • Paul Roderick Gregory Paul Roderick Gregory, Contributor 8 hours ago
    Kommy:
    Good handle. So the separatists shoot down an An-26 and celebrate as a victory. They did the same thing yesterday but hit a passenger plane. So I guess you are right. The Ukrainians managed to gain possession of a BUK system in exactly the location form when the terrorists shot down the An-26. They conjured up conversation tapes the day before, shor down the Malaysian jet and had the incriminating intercepted calls ready to go 15 minutes after the crash. Try selling that one. Just admit the obvious: The separatists shot down a passenger jet by mistake.
  • Actually, if the Ukrainian government did it, they would have had more than 20 minutes. The Ukrainian government reported they lost contact with the plane at 14:15 GMT, whereas Flightradar24 didn’t lose contact with the plane until 14:21 GMT. Apparently Flightradar24 has better equipment than the Ukrainian government. Yes, I want to hear what the black box has to say. I want to know what was said and by who. I don’t really think that rebels shot an An-26 that day, but wouldn’t it be ironic if they shot the plane that shot Malaysian air?
  • Even Kiev Junta recognize, that freedom fighters are not equipped to hit anything at this altitude.
    Are you a better catholic than a Pope?
  • First, I would love for you to post a link to the video from Ukrainian Intelligence. I tried to follow the link yesterday from the BBC and found it did not work. Ukrainian intelligence probably had to do a little more “editing” to fix it up some.
    Second, the Russians did not have to provide the separatists with BUK systems. The Ukrainian government already did that. The Ukrainian government uses the BUK and conveniently left two of them at the Donetsk airport when the separatists ceased it.
    Third, at the beginning of the week the Ukrainian puppet government and the FAA issued a warning about commercial flights flying over the separatist region. Airlines apparently decided it was worth the risk and this is the result.
    Fourth, I am not an economist, so perhaps I don’t have the insight (or should I say incite as the case may be) into the matter that you do. I am sure you collected your evidence at the scene and reported this in an unbiased manner. I am especially convinced by your “purported” video of rebels fleeing the scene – even though it looks like they are out for a Sunday drive heading toward the crash. However, I would like to have a little more hard evidence – not easily manipulated videos – before I make my decision as to whether separatists accidentally shot down the passenger flight (nothing even you have presented shows they deliberately targeted a civilian airliner) or whether the Ukrainian government or even NATO forces shot it down to add more flames to their cause of taking over Ukraine and starting WWIII with Russia. No matter who is responsible, I will never claim that we should go to war with Russia (and by extension China) over a relatively small part of land that used to belong to Russia anyway.
    The world is filled with war. Innocent people die all the time. How many innocent people have the Ukrainian government killed in this region – and for what? The entire Ukrainian government was going to accept Russia’s deal so we staged a coup and took it over. Now, if half Ukraine (it isn’t even half) sides with Russia, we can at least say we won half it to our cause. Why fight over something that doesn’t belong to us?
    Finally, you talk about Putin’s propaganda, but lets talk about US propaganda. Every single government official I have seen quoted and contacted personally WANTS to go to war with Russia. I can see no other reason for this madness except one simple name: Snowden. He has pointed out that we spy on our allies and now our allies have caught on to it. So, we are going to start a war with Russia to what? Pay Russia back for harboring him?
    Well, we aren’t as strong as we think we are – especially economically. Hope you managed to pull all your Exxon-Mobile stock before those sanctions hit Russia on Monday – did you notice our gas prices spike? Russia is sanctioning us, too. Unfortunately, they are hitting our pocket books a little harder than we are hitting theirs. All for a little piece of land that once belonged to them. Russia has no need to fight a war with tanks and missiles, they can hurt us far worse with economics.
  • If this, on the video, a SA-11- this is not enough to launch missile, you need at least two other transporters. I do not see them. Secondly, if this even Torez/Snezhnoe, still the vehicle is too small and too square above the chassis. SA-11 has a butt that overhangs by a good yard.
    Wrong tree, Paul, wrong tree….
  • John Scott John Scott 2 hours ago
    I find the evidence vague on who to blame. Obviously it looks as though Russia supplied or launched the rocket that brought down the airliner. But just as tens of thousands died in Syria and so many displaced a much bigger crisis then what has happened so far with Russia and Ukraine. I find it very hard to imagine Obama and leaders of the West especially Europe with so much reliance on Russia that Putin has little to worry about. You Mr. Gregory seem to think Mr. Putin has any sense. No he has a calculated and so far successful campaign to regain what Putin believes is Russia’s. So far the West has done little more then slap his hand and wave fingers. I see little the West can do other then try and place blame where it correctly should be. After that, I think Putin will continue his quest and the West will continue to whine. Where is a Ronald Reagan when you need him. Maybe we just need another reset with Russia. Let’s send both Hillary and Kerry this time. That will teach em!
  • RussM RussM 2 hours ago
    Nadia, as a Russian born US citizen, I sympathize with your people’s suffering. However, I live in the United States, as do many of these supposed “putin trolls.” I’ve offered Mr. Gregory to have Forbes look up everyone’s IP address etc. Obviously he hasn’t done this. From talking to many of my American friends here, it appears that quite a number of people (no, not those watching Russia Today on repeat) are very skeptical over the US and Kiev government.
    The problem in Ukraine will only get worse if the people of Ukraine blame everyone who is against Kiev’s policies as paid Putin paid trolls. The situation needs to be resolved diplomatically and intellectually. That’s what I’m seeing many Ukrainians and Russians doing to each other. They’re demonizing one another. Don’t demonize people who hold a different opinion than you do. You are creating enemies within your own country and are driving a deeper wedge.
  • RememberMe,
    I suggest you stop wasting everybody’s time with outrageously obvious fakes from RT like video that you posted.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLjfcttipu0&feature=youtu.be
    What are you, 3 years old troll?
    Spanish “Carlos X” who doesn’t speak Ukrainian, but was working in Kiev as air traffic controller? Ba, he doesn’t even speak English, which is a must for controllers. Alleged “Carlos’s twitter page” is a screaming fake (kindly shown at 1:51+ of video), and this is how real “twitter spainbuca” page looks like: https://twitter.com/spainbuka
  • Tom Larosi Tom Larosi 1 hour ago
    What a completely completely biased article. I don’t suppose anyone bothered to ask, why do these seperatists want to seperate, and why did US spend 5 billion (as admitted by Noland) to foster revolution in Kiev,
    Bottom line is, IF THERE WAS NO WAR, THERE WOULD BE NO DEAD..

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